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Home Publications Blogs Beat the Press Krugman Nails NYT Nonsense on Argentina

Krugman Nails NYT Nonsense on Argentina

Thursday, 23 June 2011 17:01

I've been otherwise occupied so I didn't get around to beating up this utterly bizarre NYT story that features Argentina as presenting a clear warning to Greece of the dangers of default. Fortunately, Krugman picked up on it on his blog

The basic point is that Argentina's economy has done extremely well following its default. It is difficult to see why anyone in Greece would not default in an instant if they thought Greece's economy would follow the same path as Argentina's economy has over the last 9 1/2 years.

There are good reasons for thinking that Greece may not be as successful, most importantly that it does not currently have its own currency. But Argentina is a model that countries would likely want to emulate, not avoid.

Comments (17)Add Comment
written by Matias Vernengo, June 24, 2011 1:17
Argentina defaulted and that was crucial for recovery, but devaluation was too. Greece should also leave the euro!
written by urban legend, June 24, 2011 1:46
I wonder if Bill Keller or the other powers-that-be even give a crap if the newspaper of record is allowing such sheer nonsense to be published under its august banner? This is egregious enough to be a firing offense for everyone in the decision-making chain.
status over substance
written by frankenduf, June 24, 2011 8:06
my guess is racism- no self respecting european wants to emulate spics
Krugman Forgot a Few Things
written by PaulinArgentina, June 24, 2011 9:15
Why did Krugman not address the worldwide commodity boom post-2002, the raising of the Hilton Beef quota, the questionable Argentine Inflation figures, the confiscation of everyone's 401K plan by the government, braindrain of the young and educated to southern Europe, and the increasing lack of transparency and criminality in his analysis of economic recovery and/or negatives of the default? There is tons more he ignores, but I haven't the time right now.

Oh that's right, he has a chart that shows the line going upward, oh, ok now I get the tremendous amount of study he has done on the topic. Up=Good, Down=bad? That's enough for a complete and thorough analysis of the situation and the result of the default. very lazy, I must say
Be serious
written by Matias Vernengo, June 24, 2011 4:47
Of course Argentina still has problems, but it's much better than with Menem. The commodity boom also happened for Brazil, but they don't grow (so that's not all that happened in Argentina). Inflation is, since 2007 higher, but in all fairness so what; real wages have increased and people have jobs. Beats being unemployed and having deflation. The nationalization of pensions has helped people. And the murder rate (per 100000 inhabitants) is similar to the US (way lower than in other countries like Brazil or Mexico). Paulin you may have your opinion, but not your facts.
Not exactly racist but ...
written by Woody, June 25, 2011 2:28
The Europeans have not held a high opinion of Latin America for a long time, and not without some reason.

Remember Charles de Gaulle famously said, "Brazil is not a serious country." Don't think he was referring to the many representatives of the African diaspora in Brazil. That was about the time a Brazilian President did a Sarah Palin and quit his elected position not far into his term. The VP-become-President was not well received by powerful interests, and soon came a military coup, with an ugly dictatorship for 20 years or so.

Argentina has very few blacks, but is mostly of Spanish and Italian origin. But its seriousness is called into question by its record: Juan Peron, widow Peron, military terrorism directed at its own citizens, the Falklands War, pegging the peso to the dollar, etc.

And the American phrase "banana republic" applied not only to Central American failed or fake democracies, but to South American ones too.

Now I do love Latin America, and I think that popular image is very outdated. Chile has had a stable, serious, and successful economy for two or three decades now. Brazil under Lula was more economically successful than anyone dared to expect. And I don't see how Argentina, since repudiating its debt, is in any way less successful or more corrupt than most countries that dutifully follow the IMF program.
Matias is clueless
written by paulinargentina, June 25, 2011 3:05
Brazil hasn't grown in the past 9 years?

Confiscating private savings has "helped" people?

Real wages are up?

Not dure how to respond to your "facts", as you call them.

Everything in my post is unequivocally true. You can not deny a single thing.

Murder rate is not "violent crime", by the way and my comparison was pre and post default, not vs US or Mexico. Que pelotudo, es obvio que sos un kirchnerista corrupto.
People that hide names insult others without a base
written by Matias Vernengo, June 26, 2011 4:08
Paulin, yes nationalization of pensions has allowed to make them viable, and people to still have a pension. Let alone that people that did not have pensions now do. Real wages have gone up, even if you use the inflation data of the market analysts (check the data). I can send it to you. And crime has not increased either. So you really are just angry because you dislike the government. That's your right, but again you cannot have your own facts. But my guess is that people like you that hide under pseudonyms and are not interest in facts. Besides your insults in Spanish to try to avoid being caught in the policies of the blog, show who is corrupt. Shame on you.
written by Matias Vernengo, June 26, 2011 4:22
Growth rate of Brazil in 2003-08 was 4.1% around half the rate in Argentina. Dean has been a constant reminder that the media that always says that Brazil grows a lot does not, in this very blog. That's how ill informed you are Paulin. Read this paper on Brazil. http://www.cesifo-group.de/por...201877.PDF
real wages in Argentina
written by Matias Vernengo, June 26, 2011 4:49
Here (http://nakedkeynesianism.blogs...ntina.html) I included a graph on real wages in Argentina.
Matias hates transparency, property rights and the rule of law
written by paulinargentina, June 26, 2011 5:28

Illegal to predict high inflation rates

Real rate calculated by MIT almost triple the official fake number, there goes growth and real wages, whoops!!!!!

Since 2002 for brazil, huh? Awfully convenient of you to leave out 2002, which was after the 12/31/2001 default, was that 17% crash an "opinion" or inconvenient fact for your "analysis"

I agree, stealing peoples savings can make any system more "viable", another one of your so called facts.

Everything else you say is unadulterated faked propaganda, perhaps to help keep a couple of your noqui positions with the government.

Don't have time to review the federal police statistics on crime, but no sane person feels safer now than in the 90's.
written by paulinargentina, June 26, 2011 5:51

Basically everyone fooled by the Kirchner propaganda machine, like Krugman, looks foolish. Matias does not, he is certainly pulling down various salaries for his support of this lunacy
crazy tea party argentine
written by Matias Vernengo, June 27, 2011 1:00
You are in the wrong blog. Right wing nuts should go read Cafe Hayek. It's a pity you don't get Glenn Beck down there, it fits your intellectual level. Paulin not only believes we were fine in the 1990s, but probably believes in creationism. Then again he might work at Clarin, and be just a mouthpiece for the right wings nuts in Argentina. I don't respond to dishonest people.
Sorry, Wrong Blog
written by paulinargentina, June 27, 2011 3:07
don't worry, I will leave this to you self appointed intellegentsia to circle jerk with the half dozen people that ever make it here to read your manipulated garbage. dishonest, huh? Coming from someone that hails the confiscation of people's hard earned money invested in 401K's is a compliment , in an Alice in Wonderland kind of way. A right wing nut is now someone who believes in transparency, freedom, private property rights and consistency. Go Figure....

How many straw men are you allowed in your response? I think you;re over your allotment, have fun kicking them down.
Miguel Paulin
written by Matias Vernengo, June 28, 2011 9:48
Works independently in the financial market, in his linkedin profile. Explains his distorted view of reality.
written by Justin Delacour, July 01, 2011 1:14
Works independently in the financial market, in his linkedin profile.

Regardless of his ideology, Paulin ought to be able to recognize that it is COMPLETELY absurd for a Times report to imply that the default wasn't successful. It takes willful blindeness to dismiss Argentina's impressive growth rates since the default.
written by Matias Vernengo, July 06, 2011 3:30
Yes, like you would expect that, regardless of ideology, Tea Party members would understand that the health reform was not a take over by the government, or that Social Security is not broke. As I said this guy is the equivalent in Argentina of the Tea Party. Is a bit irrational and that explains his explicit insults to me in Spanish, which are quite nasty.

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Dean Baker is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, D.C. He is the author of several books, his latest being The End of Loser Liberalism: Making Markets Progressive. Read more about Dean.